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[personal profile] childeric
Quick question that has so far proved un-googlable...

I know Germans and Germanophones are a bit weird - to Anglo-American eyes - about correctly using academic titles and get wildly hung up about people omitting any, hence the nonsense of 'Professor Doktor Schicklgrüber' or 'Doktor Doktor Schicklgrüber' if Schicklgrüber happens to have more than one title. But I'm currently dealing with an Austrian who would seem to want me to address her in correspondence by the style 'Mag', short for 'Magister', as she is the possessor of a magister artium degree. Surely that can't be normal, even in Germany/Austria?

It is, I should mention, possible that she or I have got entirely the wrong end of the stick in the process of translation, but does anyone happen to know if Germans with MAs really seriously expect to be called Magister/Master?

Update I've just noticed that the Austrian in question has addressed me as 'Mr'. 99.99% of the time I couldn't care less about that, but just this once it has a certain amusement value.

Date: 2008-01-23 03:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] moral-vacuum.livejournal.com
'Doktor Doktor

Can't you see I'm burning, burning...

BTW: I presume you are "Herr Doktor" (spot unsubtle phonetic pun).

Date: 2008-01-23 04:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] childeric.livejournal.com
Oh, but bi-lingual puns are great! Even greater than monolingual puns and they're pretty bloody good to start off with. ;)

I'm afraid I'm sad enough to think first about UFO rather than the Thompson Twins when considering Doctor Doctor lyrics: too much time spent in sad rock clubs...

Date: 2008-01-23 03:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kekhmet.livejournal.com
I don't know the answer to your question I'm afraid, but I do rather fancy the idea of demanding that people call me Mistress of Science once my Uni finally get around to actually awarding me my MSc. ;-)

(Actually , that gives me a rather good idea for the celebratory party I really ought to have once I finally have the balsted proof of the degree in hand)

Date: 2008-01-23 04:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] childeric.livejournal.com
Any excuse to have people say 'Yes, Mistress' has got to be a pretty good thing to anyone raised on tacky horror films: god, there aren't nearly enough wizened and servile retainers around these days.

I like to think that I've mastered the arts but doctored philosophy...

Date: 2008-01-23 06:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] d-floorlandmine.livejournal.com
Any excuse to have people say 'Yes, Mistress' has got to be a pretty good thing to anyone raised on tacky horror films
Aye, but there's sod all chance of anyone saying "Yes Master" to me, without collapsing in a fit of the giggles. I know I would, too ...

Date: 2008-01-24 10:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] moral-vacuum.livejournal.com
I see people more likely to say "Igor, bring me the photon scrambulator!".

Date: 2008-01-25 08:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] d-floorlandmine.livejournal.com
"Where did you get this brain, Igor?"

Date: 2008-01-23 06:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] juniperus.livejournal.com
Any excuse to have people say 'Yes, Mistress' has got to be a pretty good thing to anyone raised on tacky horror films: god, there aren't nearly enough wizened and servile retainers around these days.

*thud* Oh yes, I simply must see about adding that to my business cards! I have minions, therefore I should strongly suggest that 'Yesss, Mistressss' will be required at Congress this year.

Date: 2008-01-23 04:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] inulro.livejournal.com
When I was working in IP law, the Austrian attorneys we used were addressed as "Mag". So yeah, possibly.

Interestingly, I don't recall it coming up with regard to any of our German agents, and we did a lot more corresponding with Germany than Austria.

Date: 2008-01-23 04:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] childeric.livejournal.com
Really? Goodness, they're quite mad, aren't they?

Date: 2008-01-23 05:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-d-medievalist.livejournal.com
Austrians are, absolutely.

Date: 2008-01-23 04:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nils.livejournal.com
While I'm not familiar with the academic system in Austria/Germania as such, I'm under the impression the Scandinavian system is similar, so here's my 2 eurocents:

In Norway, a Magister degree is/was somewhat higher than a Master's (though lower than a PhD), though they've largely gone out of fashion/been replaced. Not sure if people would use Magister as a title; if they did, it's long since gone out of fashion (but then, Scandiwegians are a lot less concerned with titles than Germans, I suspect... ;-)

Date: 2008-01-23 08:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] inulro.livejournal.com
Aah. That would make it broadly analagous to our MPhil.

Date: 2008-01-23 05:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pisica.livejournal.com
[livejournal.com profile] deutsche_kultur is a good place to ask about all things German. Just don't mention the war. ;)

I've been meaning for a while to write an entry about the options airline websites give you for titling yourself. Lufthansa.co.uk's is:

Mr.
Mr. Dr.
Mr. Prof.
Mr. Prof. Dr.
Ms.
Dr. Ms.
Ms. Prof.
Ms. Prof. Dr.

- which is, I found when I went to their German website, exact translations of what they offer in German.

Dr. Ms. I guess I can live with that. :)

Date: 2008-01-23 05:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pisica.livejournal.com
Actually, I don't know if it *is* a direct translation, and may go over and ask this at the DK community.

Herr
Herr Dr.
Herr Prof.
Herr Prof. Dr.
Frau
Frau Dr.
Frau Prof.
Frau Prof. Dr.

Unless Frau is now an all-purpose title? Apparently 'Fraulein' has fallen by the wayside.

(And why it 'Mr. Dr.' but 'Dr. Ms.', I wonder?'

- Pisica, wondering way too much about this.

Date: 2008-01-23 05:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-d-medievalist.livejournal.com
Frau has indeed replaced Fräulein for adult women in most interactions. It is more used to denote adulthood rather than marital status these days.

Date: 2008-01-23 05:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-d-medievalist.livejournal.com
Well, I am currently negotiating a contract auf Deutsch, and the woman I correspond with and I address each other as 'Frau Doktor'. So I suppose you should imitate her style -- Frau Mag.? but make sure your own information makes it clear that you are Doktor Trafford.

Oh -- unless this is in English, in which case, she may be trying to be correct, but has got it wrong. I would address her as Ms., as that is the equivalent of what she is doing for you. Basically, unless you are asking her for a favour and trying to be extra polite, you outrank her. It counts. Also, never apologise if you can help it. Hier bin ich in Ernst. Echt.

Oh -- eta: My advisor in Germany had on his nameplate, Professor Doktor Doktor, but we called him Herr Professor ...

Date: 2008-01-24 10:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] childeric.livejournal.com
Thanks!

They're a strange bunch, the Germans, bless 'em.

Date: 2008-01-23 06:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nodis.livejournal.com
This is more an Austrian thing.
Germans are nutters as well, but Austrians looooooove their titles. It originates in the Danube Monarchy and there are nearly about 900 titles that one could have...
check out this site www.aeiou.at . They have it translated into English as well.

Date: 2008-01-24 10:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] childeric.livejournal.com
Oo, lots of pretty pictures. It looks nice, even if they are all a bit barking.

Date: 2008-01-24 12:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nodis.livejournal.com
like the austrians ;)

oh and btw , it was googlable .... you just need to try it in the right tongue ;p

Date: 2008-01-23 08:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] drdoug.livejournal.com
I know Germans and Germanophones are a bit weird - to Anglo-American eyes - about correctly using academic titles and get wildly hung up about people omitting any

English academics who have posh titles can be just as hung up. I've had close working relationships with a handful of 'Professor The Lord Smith' and 'Professor Sir Aaron Aardvark' types (he says airily), and all have been delightfully disarming and friendly in person, waving away any publicly expressed concern about correct forms of address with exhortations to "Oh just call me Jim" ... while still somehow making it clear that they'll be really rather disappointed if you get it wrong on any written correspondance.

Date: 2008-01-24 10:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] childeric.livejournal.com
Yes, a certain well-known media peer and intellectual with whom I had some very peripheral dealings some years back very much insisted on being called Melvyn, yet lost no opportunity of mentioning every couple of minutes that he had important business to attend to in the Lords.

Date: 2008-01-24 10:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] moral-vacuum.livejournal.com
He was only Bragging...

Date: 2008-01-27 12:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] flavius-m.livejournal.com
'Mag'? Maybe you try and just could call her Maggie and see what happens. And stand well back...

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